-SONIC TECH NOTE SERIES- NOTES ON BUILDING A SUPRA GTE By Reg Riemer, Calgary Alberta Canada. Phone# 1-403-259-3106 FILE NAME: GTENOTES.txt Thursday Sept 5/96 Due to the overwhelming number of phone calls and letters I receive with questions regarding upgrading the MA-67, I decided to write the following text to help anyone interested in upgrading their older Supra MK II to a fire breather Supra GTE car. *DISCLAIMER #1 FOR SUPRA GTE CAR Keep in mind that the upgrade project we are talking about here, will make the 1982 to 1985 Supra GTS a totally killer car. It will run away from most of street and race cars you will find around. If you do not respect this cars performance, by driving it foolishly you will kill yourself and other innocent people. Be careful with a Supra GTE out on the public roads and highways. I will not be held responsible for anyone driving a Supra GTE outside the rules of the road! If you do not kill yourself you could very well spend some time in a jail cell. The Supra GTE when driven properly is as safe as any other Toyota on the road. The 7M is a fantastic motor but many of the examples you will find for your GTE upgrade project will have seen more than a normal life span as the cars are getting very old. Therefore your plans for this upgrade should include opening up the 7M-GTE engine you use to make sure you don't have work to do inside the motor. On more than one occasion in the past 3 years of Supra GTE projects, the person doing the project did not look at the engine he was using and just assumed that it was good engine, only to find out later that it was not up to the task. In a number of occasions Supra owners who could not afford to buy my conversion kit, started into this project on their own trying to hack the project together low budget. I know this because the members who have done this end up on the phone and emailing me day after day to try and help them sop up all the problems they were experiencing on their own. In the end all of these attempted projects ended up being terribly disappointing to the owner, and more expensive than if the owner would have proceeded with the upgrade with my kit following proper procedures from the beginning. I'm sorry guys but I just don't have any time left in my day to try and carry people through this type of project unless they are working with the products that I have manufactured to build the car correctly. All of the past low budget stories have resulted in a second and final disclaimer for the Supra GTE project. *DISCLAIMER #2 If you cannot afford the cost of the SONiC Supra GTE conversion kit you will not be able to afford to build this car or any high performance car, period. Its not that this GTE project will cost all that much money, but many owners expect to have a car like mine by investing a total of 1,000 dollars over the cost of the used engine and 7M-GTE parts they purchased from a junker MK III car. This will not be sufficient funds for completion of this project. A number of good examples have come together in the $3,000 range above the cost of the 7M-GTE Mk 111 parts. If you weigh the amount of funds required to build a good Supra GTE car against the cost of any other type of car in this performance category the Supra GTE project cost is a bargain! This is regardless of how much money you sink into parts and later performance upgrades. One way to look at it is; If you would have trouble meeting the costs of the removal and rebuilding of your current 5M-GE engine this project is not for you. Because the 7M-GTE in the light weight 82 to 85 Supras has a very high power to weight ratio combination, it is very important that the car you plan to upgrade has a very good body. Never plan to upgrade a badly rusted or previously badly damaged and repaired body shell. The 7M-GT modified engine can and will pull a damaged car to two pieces. Also the trans and diff, short shafts and brakes should all be in good working order. A good MA-67 body stands up perfectly to 450 HP under the hood with no complaints what so ever. My car is still just as rattle free and tight as the day it came from Toyota City and my Supras body shell has over 340,000 km's on it. The rear stub axles and half shafts are all original equipment. With my electrical sub harness connecting the 7M-GTE to your MK II Supra the 7M-GTE and its TCCS factory computer will have no idea that they are not sitting in the original Supra Turbo. The OBD, two speed fuel pump system, and all other control systems will be moved over to your MK 11 Supra from the MK 111. The MK 11's electrical systems are left untouched. Only the 5M-GE engine computer is removed along with the 5M-GE engine wire coming through the fire wall. My sub harness kit plugs into the 7M-GTE's engine wire and the 7M-GTE TCCS {Toyota computer Control System} ECU, the sub harness also plugs and wires into the cowl wire connectors under the dash, side kick panels and under the hood of the 82 to 85 Supras The stock EFI fuel pump is ok to about 375 HP the flywheel, if you have an 83 and up MA-67 with in tank fuel pump you can upgrade this to the pump from the 87 to 92 MA-71 fuel pump from your parts MK 111, or other high performance in tank pump is so desired. On older 82-83 MA-67's with external fuel pump I used the high performance external fuel pump from Nos systems. The stock 82-83 external pump is also ok to the peak hp available with the stock injectors and turbocharger. Because the stock factory 7M-GTE computer is used you will be able to use any HKS, PFC-FCON and VPC fuel upgrades designed for use with the 7M-GTE engine. You may also use my Lexus Air Meter fuel upgrade coupled with 560 cc injectors as well. The first step to doing the conversion is to buy a wrecked MA-71 with good or rebuild able 7M-GTE. The next step will be to talk with me about getting your sub harness built. The electrical will be easy with my sub harness ready to bring life to your 7M-GTE installed into your MK 11 Supra. -PARTS YOU WILL NEED TO DO THIS CONVERSION- *7M-GTE complete, with engine wiring harness all sensors and coils *TCCS ECU matching the 7M-GTE engine wire. 87-88 and 89-92 etc *Complete electrical harness from behind dash, including all wires, fuse and junction box's all the way out to the right and left front fenders aprons. This also includes the dash gauge cluster and wires running to them. The only thing I will not need when building your sub harness will be the wires that run into the back sections of the car and the doors. Basically the complete electrical system from the Mk 111 car will be in a box with my name on it. I do not need your 7M-GTE's engine wire or ECU *Alternator, power steering pump, AC compressor if required {extra weight} :-) *Igniter, Airflow meter, EFI resistors, COR on wire harness under dash, fuel pump {optional}, fuel pump relay and fuel pump resistor. *Stock Intercooler from MA-71 or high performance after market if desired *Intercooler pipes from MA-71. Silicone hose joints, or custom fit HKS or Greddy pipes, M bend J bends. Some members have left the IC pipes up to a good muffler shop and received excellent results *2 1/2 or 3 " exhaust system, again leave this work for a good muffler shop *2.5 or 3 inch cat back exhaust system from the The best and easy way to do this is just to purchase a wrecked 87 to 92 Supra Turbo off the street or find one in a wrecking yard complete, cut a deal with the yard owner for all the parts you need right from the beginning! Much cheaper this way. The owner of the Supra GTE I was just working on in California put all his parts together piece by piece from junk yards around the country. Doing it this way worked out ok for him. The problem with the piece by piece way is that it is hard to know if all the used parts you purchased are in good working condition. If your donor car runs before you start this project you won't have any problems getting the car running. When I finished my car I went inside the car turned the key and on first crank, Brrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm, :-) If you do it the piece by piece method of parts buying make sure that the parts yard will give you a replacement part for any bad components. Some of the good yards will let you plug the component into your friends Mk III Supra to test it. Your friend might not like it though. "Hi frank, Joe here do you think I could borrow your Supra Turbo on the weekend if you won't be driving it, I need it for a test drive to the auto wreckers, Hee Hee". The service manual bench test procedures do not always tell the story of the Air Flow Meter, Igniter, ECU, CPS, etc. Your TCCS engine computer will tell you exactly what it thinks of the air flow meter, Ed's junk yard sold you for you Supra GTE. If possible I recommend the complete parts car off the street approach. There are many good candidate Mk 111 cars on the road. I have had members who purchased them from insurance action yards as write off's as well as from the original owner of a car that is just a high mile clapped out beater Mk 111. -SOME NOTES ON PERFORMANCE OF THE SUPRA GTE WITH 7M-GT The lightest full feature GTE car would be at 2850 with the heaviest at around 3200. My GTE car is at 2850 lb's as it sits in the photos on the web. Most Porsche race cars are lighter than the Mk II let alone the Mk III. If you know anything about Porsche's history, their light weight car designs were their prime advantage. The 7M-GTE MK II Supra is basically a serious performance car with a light weight and strong body shell. *Here is some numbers on my Supra GTE in its latest form. Peak HP 480 {390 rear wheel} Curb lbs 2850 lbs Lbs per BHP 2850/480 = 5.83 lbs/bhp This is Race Car Territory. I you do the math on a Mk III and you will see that 650 HP will be required in a Mk III to just match the lbs/bhp rating of my Mk II. 650 Hp in the Mk II would put it at 4.3 lbs/bhp. -Some Lb/bhp ratings on Porsche cars {from the book We at Porsche by Ferry Porsche} *Type 911 Turbo street car- 9.66 lbs/bhp *type 904 GTS street Car 7.82 lbs/bhp *Carrera 911 RSR race car- 4.00 lbs/bhp *Type 917/30 race car- 1.59 lbs/bhp *Type 917/10 race car- 3.03 lbs/bhp *Type 908 ShortTail race car- 4.53 lbs/bhp I hope this answers some of your questions. Reg Riemer